Catcher Topics - Part Deux
... as also generated by students:
1. Does Holden accurately represent a typical teenager?
2. Is Holden smart?
(be sure to define your key terms for #1 and #2)
3. Why does Salinger contrast uncertainties with absolutes?
posted by D. Robin @ 5/13/2009
13 comments
13 Comments:
A typical teenage is one who has fears, uncertainties, confusions, dreams, hopes, and wishes which they typically do not show. If they are shown, they are shown to a very close or trusted friend. A typical teen also is caught between the ideals of youth and of experience. They have the egocentric and relatively innocent view of the world similar to that of a child, but also a view of the world which knows pain, struggle, and doubt. They have experienced enough to feel that they have experienced everything, which gives them a sense of confidence that adults view as naivety and ignorance. By this definition, yes, Holden is a typical teenager.
Maggie Miller :)
Why does Salinger contrast uncertainties with absolutes?
In The Catcher in the Rye, Holden becomes notorious for speaking in absolute terms. Contrast between uncertainties with absolute statements is apparent. Salinger writes Holden’s commentary this way to enforce Holden’s insecurity. When Holden says something that leaves him uncertain, he follows up with an absolute statement. Salinger’s ultimate goal with the novel is to make Holden a stereotypical teenager. As teenagers are stereotypically insecure, Salinger would hope to implement this. Writing with absolutes following uncertainties creates the tone that Holden, due to his insecurity, is attempting to compensate for his uncertainty. As the stereotypical teenager, he always wants to be right.
-Kevin Mangan
Holden Caulfield represents a typical teenager. Teenagers represent a unique stage in life between childhood and adulthood. Teenagers have to bridge the gap between those two stages of life. Everything about a teenager changes and now society requires teenagers to be responsible. Holden has had a traumatic past with his brother's death and tries to cope every day. He, like many normal teenagers, hates change and wishes to strive towards his normal routines. He constantly questions truth and the perception of reality. Holden is very curious and this side of him is put on display with his constant questioning, especially his questioning about the ducks from the pond. Teenagers enter a new world of maturity and are confused and overwhelmed. Holden tries to act calm but underneath he is just as scared as everyone else. He tries new things like smoking and drinking to try and fit in with older generations just as many teenagers do. Holden Caulfield is a very typical teenage character.
Is Holden smart? The characterization of Holden as smart depends upon what the word smart is interpreted to mean. From a knowledge standpoint, Holden is a genius. He has a plethora of knowledge on a wide range of subjects, which is the reason he is such a good conversationalist. However if smart is intended to mean that a person makes intelligent choices that will allow him to succeed in the future, than Holden is about as dumb as a brick. Holden seems to take every opportunity to set himself back, weather it be by ditching classes or getting into fights. The contrast of these two forms of intelligence cause Holden to act in a hypocritical manner, for example, although he knows smoking is bad for him, he lacks the mental strength to force himself to quit. This is also the reason for Holden’s failure in school, as he has the intelligence to succeed, but lacks the motivation.
Adam Reninger
Is Holden smart?
I think the word smart encompasses different types of intelligence. Intelligence can come in forms such as book smart, street smart, people smart, visual, kinesthetic, nature, etc. Holden posseses a different type intrapersonal intelligence. His distrustfulness is only a part of his antisocial personality type. Holden does not relate well to adults, but he seems to relate well with children.
Holden recieves poor grades in school and may not be book smart, but he definitely displays intelligence. Holden just does not wish to utilize it to improve himself. Holden is not stupid, he is just an especially troubled teenager. People may be in remedial classes, but they can also possess talents that are not recognized because their thought processes are different. Many people like this, including Holden, are often ostracized due to the lack of book smarts. It may be strange to believe, but there is a whole other realm of students besides us “AP” kids that are just as smart as us. :)
Holden does not accurately represent a typical teenager. It is hard to define what a typical teenager is, especially in America. The reason it is hard to pinpoint what a typical teenager is because teenagers come from all walks of life, whether that be financial, culture, religion, etc. For example, if you take teenagers who live in an area where the parents make 6 figures salary, a typical teenager would possibly be someone who has a car, the latest clothing, etc. But if you go to an area where the parents make an average income a typical teenager would be something entirely different. So for someone to say that Holden accurately represents a typical teenager would only be false because that person is saying that all teenagers are the same regardless of all the different variables which affect how a teenager is.
From what has been written in the book Holden is not smart, in the terms of the grades he received in school. He might have the knowledge but he does not show that, so it can be safely assumed that he is not smart. However, I do believe that Holden has the capability of receiving good grades in school and display his intelligence to society. But the lack of a driving force for Holden to excel academically is not there; so the chances of him being an academic success are slim to none.
-Mo Khan
P.1
Does Holden accurately represent a typical teenager?
I think Holden Caulfield represents the stereotype of teenagers. The stereotype for teenagers is that they are sexual, fickle, annoying, contradictory, repetitive, conceded and basically bad people. I am a teenager, but I do not see these characteristics because I am within the discourse of teenagers and do not associate with many people who seem to act like Holden. The people I interact with are usually within the upper ranking of the class. Teenagers like Holden would tend to be in the lower section because they do not care about their education that much, even if they are smart. High school teachers are more likely to think that Holden represents a typical teenager because they see the wide variety of teenagers and have a sense of the average characteristics among them.
Mona Patel
Why does Salinger contrast uncertainties with absolutes?
To start out with, absolutes are words such as ‘always’ and ‘never’ while uncertainties are ’maybe’ or ’sometimes’. When someone says ‘never’ or ‘always’, they suggest they know for certain that something is always or never done. Using ‘sometimes,’ ‘maybe,’ ‘most of the time.’ and other phrases of that sort show uncertainty about a subject. When Salinger contrasts uncertainties with absolutes through HC, he demonstrates both sides of an adolescent. Kids think they know everything and are always right, when in reality they are sometimes right. Showing both sides of uncertainties and absolutes through HC lets the reader understand even though HC likes to pretend he’s older and more mature than most adolescence, he is still just a child.
Britnie blackshrie
There is no such thing as a typical teeager. This question does not make any sense. Just like there is no "typical" old person, there is no "typical" teeager. What is typical depends on personal experiences. I cannot accurately judge Holden becuase I can only see him in the way he is portrayed as in the novel. He has distinctive traits such as his tendency to lie. Everybody lies. Lying is a personal choice and should not be associated with teenagers. Alults lie too. Parents lie to their childern all the time, what ever their reasons may be. At the end of the day it is still not true. If Holden is supposed to prepresent a typical teenager, this is unfair. Not all teenagers lie as frequently as he does. Of course everyone lies but Holden lies just for fun. Just to see how far he can take it, for his own amusment.
Personally, I cannot say I have ever thought about running away and moving west because life is not what I want it to be. I may be a drama queen but that is over the top. It is unrealistic. Most teeangers do not behave and perform so poorly academically that they have to go to the extremes and contemplate running away.
Is Holden smart? In what sense? there is book smarts and there are street smarts. Holden seems to be an individual who has potential but does nto apply himself. He excels at english and he knows it. Yet he fails the class. Holden for the most part is definitely street smart. Maybe its because he lives in a big city and the fact that I dont that makes me think he is so brave for roaming NYC by himself but that is impressive. He knew how to find a place for shelter and he had a form of transportation. The incident he had at the hotel with the prostitute and Maurice is unfair to countn against him for screet smarts because it was not something he could predict. He was caught off guard and the situation just got out of control.
The stereotype of a typical teenager is ones who lies, steals, and cheats to get to where he or she aspires to be, one that provokes others unnecessarily, and, even after being warned of the consequences to come, proceeds with his or her actions regardless. When deciding whether or not Holden is an accurate representation of a typical teenager, if ones looks to the stereotypes bestowed upon teenagers, he or she will undeniably find Holden to fit the stereotype with ease. Not only does Holden lie consistently throughout the book to everyone in sight, he also never fails to be a complete hypocrite. He hates when others repeat words or phrases, yet when he does the same thing, he sees no problem in it. Based solely on this reason, I do not find Holden to be smart. Smart, in my eyes, is an individual who is confident with himself and his own point of view, yet also open to other points of view. I do not feel that an ignorant being cold ever be labeled smart, for which reason I do not believe the Holden is smart. Holden is undeniably extremely ignorant to the points of views that other people may have, for which reason he is quick to judge anyone and everyone in sight. I feel that his ignorance leads him to the wrong judgments, thus making the wrong decisions and saying the wrong things. I feel that this is one of the main reasons Salinger contrasts uncertainties with absolutes. By doing so, he juxtaposes Holden’s insecurities and thoughts to those of others around him. Holden is always seen as extremely judgmental, and even when he claims that he is sure, he has some sort of uncertainty thrown into the sentence, causing the reader to decipher the truthful statement for him or herself.
~Amina I
3. Why does Salinger contrast uncertainties with absolutes?
The reason anyone would use the contrast between uncertainties and absolutes is to create confusion. Salinger does it to create confusion in the life of an average teenager. The novel is written from a teen’s perspective and the language must match that point of view. In a much larger scope, Salinger epitomizes the ups and downs of a teenager’s life. Confusion and back and forth tendencies are what the teenage years are all about, so the contrast between the words fits perfectly into that theme.
Brianna Saviano
Does Holden accurately represent a typical teenager?
I honestly do think Holden totally represents a typical teenage. Yeah his life is a little more dramatic than most but the troubles he goes through are the basics every teen has to deal with growing up. The death of a close family member, grades, girls and boys, money, teachers and parents. Salinger depicts the basic problems of every teen through Holden. The story all unfolds because Holden can't keep his grades a problem that at one point in every teens life they face. He become lazy in school and gives up when it gets too hard. I know I’ve wanted to just give up sometimes when school gets to hard, luckily I never have but its definitely a common problem we all face. He also struggles tot ell his parents, something all teen have trouble with. we always want our parents to be proud of us and it's so hard when we know we disappoint them at least for me it is. because of these common traits I believe Holden to be portrayed as a real teen. He faces the same struggles we all do and develops similar relationships to teens today.
-Brianna Blackshire
#3
A teenagers life consists of one uncertainty after another. From fashion to sports, relationships to grades, life for a teen constantly changes. Not only do teens deal with emotional and social changes, but they also grow up in the four years spent in high school. Teens mature and join the world of independence, jobs, and the very real concept of financial problems. From leaving junior high to walking in high school graduation, teens face numerous changes that leave them whirling.
Though insane and hectic, high school years also play home to some very stubborn outlooks. Out of all of the age groups, teens often have a very set view point, or lack there of. Teens rebel just for the sake of not conforming. They hold onto their identities as individuals. The cliques of high school demonstrate the impossibility of staying completely without opinion. Each group, or discourse, has a set of rules that the members conform to, sometimes unknowingly. This absolute existence contrasts with the many changes of a teenagers life. One of the reasons teens cling so hard to their groups and cliques is that they provide a rock to stabilize the hurricane of teenage life and emotions.
Salinger emphasizes both uncertainties and absolutes to portray the dichotomy of teen life. Teenagers live lives that are both completely unorganized and rock solid at the same time. Even if all plans fly out the window, teens stubbornly cling to something: a friend, a clique, or a story of hope. The uncertainty presented in Holden’s hedging over issues juxtaposes with his absolute blanket stereotypes to provide a look at the structure of teenage life.
~Lauren
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